At the risk of offending anyone reading today’s post, my blog title is my way of letting you know, I’m heading into the dark side today: the dark and highly forbidden side of bestiality. I’d like to offer an open discussion about the topic, if anyone out there *hello* cares to speak.
I must give our friend Janine Ashbless a proper nod, because I landed onto her blog posting some time ago, which connected me to Billierosie’s blog. It appears the three of us fancy beasts, and our beasts are not anthropomorphic. Note: I think it’s important to mention that Janine, Billierosie and I, all love and respect animals. We’re each animal activists in our own way. Suffice to say, this post is certainly not about animal cruelty, which personally makes me want to vomit.
If you’re an erotic writer, you know there are certain subjects you’re not allowed to touch: rape, sex with those under the legal age, and sex with animals, aka, bestiality. Oh sure, you can write about werewolves, vampires and other creatures that possess human characteristics, but no editor or publisher I know will touch your bestiality prose. And please, I’m in no way placing blame here, especially not with any editor or publisher. I’ve come to respect and admire too many people within the erotic pool. So, once again, at the risk of offensive behavior, I suppose I must beg the question, why? Why can’t we write about rape, under age sex and sex with animals? And before I go and tell my mind to shut up, because it’s already conjuring up of all the violence associated with these subjects, I have to remind my mind that it spends most of its free time with other artists. So my mind hears, sees, and feels what other artists express: the good, the bad, the hurtful, the violent and the obscure. The difference is I know many artists touch upon these taboo subjects in their work, so why can’t I write about it?
I’ve posted recently about a conversation I had with Billierosie about one of the very first, erotic stories I read, an erotic thriller titled, Topping From Below. This book is loaded with enough sadist masochism that the Marque De Sade had to have been smiling up from his darkened grave. This book is what I would consider gritty-dark. It’s a thriller that most definitely spoke, hell, it sung about bestiality between its lurid pages. It’s a dark, number that you won’t ever forget. It’s still one of my all-time favorite erotic thrillers too. I find I’ve referenced passages in this book on more than one occasion when trying to draw upon a dark emotion. And I’ll be honest, the bestiality in the story is not for the thin-skinned either, however, both the writer and the story needed the images of the dog and the pig (sorry, guys) in order to demonstrate the character’s psycho-psychotic mind. The book would not have had the same impact without the bestiality woven into its pages. And I’m not talking about rubber-necking, sensationalism here either.
The more I write, the stronger my voice gets. I suppose every writer feels that way, which is what we all strive for, I suppose. I’m also becoming less and less fearful about speaking my voice too. Although, I don’t like to offend anyone, so maybe I’m not as strong voiced as I’d like to be. I’m a very positive-minded person, but when it comes to erotic writing, I’ve always preferred the dark side: “Luke, I am your father.” (sorry, couldn’t resist). My favorite color is black, my last name is Black. I love dark meat, dark chocolate, dark men, film noir, and my very, very favorite perfume is Chanel Number 5, with its dark, spicy notes and its sleek, black case whisper and coax me into deep, dark places, or down forbidden paths where beasts seem to live. And boy, do I love exploring roads less traveled; less blazen, filled with ugly pot holes, rocks and scraggly bushes. Roads that lead to no where, but everywhere.
When I first picked up my erotic writing pen, I wanted to express what I call the “rub” in each story. I still do too. “What’s the rub?” You ask. The rub for me is that place inside each and every person where the light side meets the dark side, and the dark side starts to look more like gray, than black. I like that dirty, dark place that lies dormant, until I scratch at it and it awakens, with an erection! I could pay an analyst a lot of money to determine why I like the darker side of things, but I’m content to shrug my shoulders and simply write about it instead.
My erotic pen did meet a beast that wasn’t human once, thus far in my erotic writings. That beast taunted my heroine and drove her wild with forbidden lust too. She was scared and brave at the same time, so for me, that was her rub; when the two opposites collided, or kissed for just a moment. In the end my heroine didn’t fully submit to his dark, beastly ways, but who knows, maybe next time she will.
What do you think about erotic taboos? What does your, dark hidden path look like? Does is have a beast? Is he sexy and non-human-like?
Neve dark side, Black
Everything I write fuses darkness and light. I live for contrast in my writing, and like a recipe, I toy with the flavors. Some comes out sweet with bitter undertones, some are decidedly sour with a bit of sweet and savory, some piquant…well, you get the point.
I don’t consider anything sacred when I write — one of my earliest published stories features brutality to and a snuff of the central character.
However, I recognize that publications, be they online venues or print anthos / mags have restrictions. Some are personal editors preferences and some are societal, such as the “deadly erotica sins” that you mentioned.
If you are writing for an editor, you have to be mindful of what they are looking for. What purpose would it serve to write so far outside what they want? They get enough submissions, why give them something they’re sure to reject? On the other hand we do need to write for our sensibilities. I don’t try to write what I think the editor wants, but how I interpret the call with a mindful eye to what I know about the editor. My basic recipe with adjustments to the seasoning.
Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t, but I’d rather be rejected for something I feel good about than be accepted for something that does not reflect my vision.
I write a number of stories each year without any plan to publish, mostly because they could not pass muster in calls that are out there, either because I’m too far over the edge in some area or because the story would not appeal to their tastes. Thankfully, there are a few editors out there that want to push boundaries, and so there are some opportunities, but if not, I’m keen to let the story sit and keep an open eye for someone that might like it, or put it in my own collection, should that ever come to pass.
I suppose I took the discussion in a bit of a different direction. When it comes to beasts, my occasional beasts in stories are decidedly human; I haven’t played with mythological. Not to say I won’t some day.
Nothing is sacred or off limits.
This is great Neve — challenging and confrontational. We do need, as writers of erotica/porn, to push our boundaries. I’m working on a story at the moment, that has a bestiality theme — whether any publisher will ever touch it, I don’t know. It may never see the light of day — but I needed to see if I could do it.
Everyone has dark fantasies, I’m sure. That doesn’t mean to say we’re going to act on them. Neither do we need an analyst — I enjoy my fantasies. Mostly they stay in my head — often they find their way into my stories.
Times change. When Vladimir Nabokov published LOLITA in 1955, people accused him of being a paedophile They confused author with narrator. Big mistake.
I like to think that people are more sophisticated now. Or maybe they’re not. I would be mortified if I thought I’d incited an act of cruelty, because someone couldn’t tell the difference between fiction and reality.
So we have responsibilities, as writers. We have to be brave. I want to agree with Craig, and say that nothing is sacred or off limits. but there’s still a tiny bit of me nervously walking on tip-toe.
When I read this, I was tempted to wait to comment until there is more discussion, but then, figured, if everyone waited, then nobody would. When I wrote my first piece of what you could call erotica - years and years ago - I was writing for nobody but me. When I picked up my writing implement and started writing again, it was also for me, but I shared that first story. But when I got that story published, I think I kinda stopped writing for me. I was writing for the call. And my writing suffered because of it. Not that I’m dying to write about the “deadly erotica sins” (ha! love that term) - but because I realized that where my erotica was going to go was to a rather dark, psychosexual place. And I was afraid. And so I didn’t write ANY. So, I’ve decided to concentrate on writing just for me (or a few select other folks) and collect some work. Then see if anything fits (or if anything miraculously fits when I finish it). I know that this subject of pushing the limits has come up in discussions before (both in blogs and in person) and I find it interesting that all sorts of sordid things can be written about if incorporated into “literature” but heaven forbid that erotica explores those same subjects. What makes erotica, erotica?
Oh, Neve, this is such a thought-provoking post–taboos, “where the light side meets the dark side,” and all that rubbing! I’m squirming, but with a perfect blend of discomfort and pleasure. I definitely feel inspired to write erotica by a sort of dark itch, a creepy mystery I want to explore. Erotica is about exposing the secret, forbidden parts of our bodies and minds, although there is room for a light and joyful celebration as well. There’s room for all of it. Except, as you point out, rape, sexual thoughts and feelings under 18 and horse fucking.
Now, you can find these things, except maybe the horse fucking, in “pure” literature. Child molestation and rape are all over the place there. But the key is, it can’t be written explicitly to turn on the reader, even if it does. Same with underage sexual thoughts, they have to conform to certain standards that make them sad and serious and only weird perverts would find them sexy.
I totally understand why erotic editors and publishers just say “no touchee on these topics.” The right would use that as an excuse to shut them down and drag them to the courts. No one needs that hassle. But sadly, the result is censorship. And those disgusting emails you get (once a year or so, lol, or am I the only one?) showing women with horses, because if bestiality wasn’t so forbidden, who would even care much? It’s the shock value mostly. The really sad thing is that bestiality can’t even be used as a symbol–not to mention some editors won’t even let you refer to an underage sexual thought which puts an exploration of sexuality in a pretty stiff corset.
One answer is to write for yourself and possibly find the right market someday or hope things change, or write the “beast” in code, as writers in all repressive societies do.
I have to say I totally relate to your experience of discovering the power of my voice at this point in my life. It’s been a gradual process, in parallel with finding my writing voice, but god is it liberating! And I truly believe a writer’s passion and authenticity shows in the story. If you write what you don’t love, if you just churn it out for the market, you get…well, what most porn is. And we’ve had enough of that catering to the lowest common denominator. We need honest, courageous writing. Because in fact, marrying the mind with the body is still a rare and dangerous combination in our society. People will allow bumping bodies if they’re properly ghettoized, but the authentic exploration of why a person would desire to submit or dominate or be spanked or have sex with three other people like that Guinness ad or whatever is too scary and disruptive.
Jeez, I could go on and on, but you really have touched the dark heart of what we do!
Go Craig and Robin–you are both blazing the trail!
Craig,
Thank you for your insightful comment. Thank you for participating too. I struggle (don’t we all) with some of my less light-hearted subject posts. I think what’s always helpful and useful to learn is that other writers are or have been jumping into the pool without the lights on too, or in other words, playing around with some no-no topics.
For whatever reason, your story involving snuff needed to be said. That’s brave of you to say and to write. And as a writer, I get why you felt compelled. You just did. Nuff said. I also like that you keep writing stories that may or may not fit into a particular editor’s call for sub, but you write them because it speaks to you - you feel inspired to sing that song.
I think I might add your term, “nothing is sacred or off limits” to my computer screen’s splash page. I like that. I like that a lot.
Hey there, Billierosie,
I’m glad you enjoyed the post and thanks for participating in the conversation. Yes, it’s true there are social changes churning and changing all the time - as we speak now. It’s a constant evolution of change, I suppose, which is good. Usually, the social changes towards literature moves forward on our behalf rather than backwards, but then again, it all depends on our political forum. I’m sure this is much different in social Europe eiither.
Yes, we do have a responsibility as writers. The deeper we go inside of ourselves, the more tuned in we become of the world around us - therefore if we write about a fictitious beast that bares no human resemblance because that story speaks to us, the message is not about animal cruelty, but probably something much deeper and probably of greater social importance - me thinks. At least that’s what my take was on Laura Reese’s decision to write about dogs and pigs in her novel, Topping From Below.
Keep on writing and write about what moves you, because that’s what’ s most important.
Robin,
I’m so glad you decided to follow your “beasty instincts” and stay with your first impulse to write here. Hey, thanks for sharing your thoughts on some of your first erotic pieces that were written for you and not a submission call. I feel that same way. I love my beginning work and it’s a constant challenge to stay true to that, while weaving in what an editor is looking for too.
I know I can learn a thing or two from some of the master’s out there, like Shanna Germain, Craig Sorensen, Donna George Storey, and Jeremy Edwards, to name a few. They seem to understand the fine line between an artist’s need for creativity and spirit, while staying within the lines of what an editor is after. Let’s be honest, that’s tough. It’s an art within itself, I think. I suppose that’s why we’re offer such congratulatory words when one of our friends is accepted.
I’d love to read some of your psycho-sexual work sometime Robin. Did you about Shanna’s Mind Fuck Fiction site. I wonder if that might be a place for some of your dark secrets to reside? You could ask her.
Also, what makes erotic, erotic? Want to come to our Erotic Halloween Party next weekend and find out? Hahaha. It’s a great question, that’s for sure, Robin. I suppose any editor would love to tell you that the answer to that question is subjective. However, we do live in a puritanical society (at least in the U.S.). We as erotic writers are of the minority, I’m afraid. I’m not telling you anything you don’t already know. It sucks, doesn’t? I’m always editing my words when attending certain social situations, like the recent party this week where the Mayor of Cleveland was present. I certainly didn’t talk to him about my erotic writing. He would have excused himself from me faster than his predecessor did, four years ago. And not because I’m not proud of what I do, what we all do, but because it’s not acceptable to talk about. I’d like to see sex become a more open topic of discusion in all social forums. What about you?
Donna, my wonderful, warm and spicy, Donna!
Thank you for your important words here. I’m so happy that I’ve touched the dark side in more than one writer by posting this. Please give thanks to both Billierosie and to Janine too, because it was those two amazing women that ignited my beasty pilot light. I struggled with how to write this post, probably because it means a lot to me, but as mentioned, I don’t want to offend, or place blame on anyone (editors, publisher and writers). Hell, we’re all this together!
Yes, Donna, I’ve seen your voice getting stronger and I love it! I guess it’s the Zen-like persons living inside of us that let allow us to speak loudly, while also being mindful of hurting feelings too.
I’m already opening up the red and letting it breath *hands over a large globe*. This topic along with all the other deeply insightful topics awaits our erotic summit meeting itinerary. I swear, we need to plan that. Maybe I need to plan that! Where’s Isabel and how’s Italy look one year from now? Show of hands, please? 
Sorry, I digressed there a little, didn’t I? Anyway, thank you so much for sharing all your experiences here. You know what we can and can’t write and the reasons behind it. I do think social norms are on our side though. In another 50 years all these taboo topics we see now, will be things other writers will scratch their heads at say, “jeez, I’m so glad I wasn’t born in those times…too many restrictions…” And so on, and so on.
Suffice to say, “…We need honest, courageous writing. Because in fact, marrying the mind with the body is still a rare and dangerous combination in our society. People will allow bumping bodies if they’re properly ghettoized, but the authentic exploration of why a person would desire to submit or dominate or be spanked or have sex with three other people like that Guinness ad or whatever is too scary and disruptive….” Brava Donna, Brava!!
the question isnt why cant we write about these subjects but why can other writers write about it…for example s king??? i know so many books who arent labeled as erotica but contain a lot of sex ..rape..”forbidden” things…so..why cant erotica writers have the same right and contain those things in stories who arent just tales but erotic tales and stories?..when i wrote my story “cold, clear water” it took me ages to find a publisher who were willing to print it…because of “its heavy violence”…my non-erotica story “foot prints” which takes place in a concentration camp is still unpublished because there is a sex scene in it and all publishers tell me they cant publish it because of this dark, desperate, giving -up sexscene…and i ask why? there was violence in the c c, there was sex, and it surely was sad, desperate and often angry sex….my grandfathers brother died in an concentration camp..so why am i not allowed to write about it???….
i dont believe in censor ship..i really dont..at least not when its about art and literature…even thought there is a lot stuff that “I” dont wanna read about i still believe that everyone should be allowed to write about every subject that one has on his or hers mind…
i dont wanna open my eyes until i have seen it all…..
Hey Danielle,
Yes, you make a good point. I’ve seen films (not porn related) about the subjects erotic writers can’t touch. I do know writers, like you mentioned horror fiction author, Stephen King have written about these taboo subjects and no bats an eyelash.
I think editors and publishers in erotica are in constant fear of being shut down for indecency. And I would imagine erotic publishers are scrutinized more so than a powerhouse publisher and home to a best selling author like Stephen King.
I think what I learned from this discussion is that we’re all writing without censorship. And I do think the social standards are becoming increasingly more tolerant. Keep writing and just hold onto those taboo stories for awhile. I’m sure someday I’ll be seeing your collection standing neck and neck with S. King.
Thank you for your passionate comments, Danielle. I appreciate that.
As usual, I’m going to start with the statement that my bestiality erotica involves mythical, sentient, consenting non-humans - dragons, minotaurs, gods in bestial form - not realistic animals. Because that’s what I find hot. Shagging Lassie holds no interst for me.
Erotica is censored, I suppose, because it breaks down mental barriers. Erotica is intrinsically tied to pleasure. If Stephen King writes a story which involves, say, burning a dog alive or raping a child, your visceral reaction is (quite rightly) supposed to be one of revulsion. If you write an erotic story about the taboo subjects you are inviting the reader to sympathise and vicariously enjoy the action. (Whether this actually, practically will incline the reader to doing something illegal or cruel in their real life is a whole different question which I am not even broaching).
I get why these things are censored. They upset people, for one reason or another. Publishers and editors are not in the business of upsetting people. (Horror publishers have the advantage of knowing their readers want to be upset … just a bit).
Now this is where you will be disappointed in me, Neve. I’m going to go out on my own here and say there’s a very large part of me that’s glad that subjects involving cruelty - the rape and child abuse and animal suffering taboos - are NOT part of the normal erotica canon. Sorry, but I’m pretty sensitive to pain - even fictional pain - and I don’t like it. I’ve read anthologies of “literary erotica” where every story seems to be desperate to explore the despair of prostitutes or how someone’s childhood experiences of abuse has lead them to being a masochist on a slow spiral into suicide and I HATE THAT STUFF. It leaves me depressed and angry and I don’t feel like having sex for feckin’ weeks. I want erotica to be sex-positive! I want it to be about pleasure - no matter how kinky, how bruising, how hard for the protagonist to deal with: still PLEASURE. So many ‘literary’ writers seem to think you can only be saying something worthwhile about sex if you’re pointing out how awful it can be. My entire writing life is dedicated to fighting that point of view.
So I’m really really sorry, and I know there are loads of you guys who would like to write stuff that is really serious and deep and painful, but oh god that is not what I want when I buy an erotica anthology and fancy a hot wank. Let it reside in its own subgenre - clearly labelled.
Bestiality (as long as involves no suffering) and necrophilia I put in a slightly different category of taboo. Nobody gets hurt. It may not always be to my taste (and that depends largely on how it is written), but it’s only going to make me wrinkle my nose and go “Nope.” So I wish that wasn’t censored, although I understand why it is. And my stories push push push at the boundaries.
These are only personal tastes.
Which all adds up to: the reason I’m not buying Topping From Below isn’t because I’m scared of the animal scenes (I’m not) but because there’s a good 80% chance, on past experience, that the female protagonist will end up dead because, ahem, “that’s what female subs really want”. Ha bloody ha.
P.S. Thanks for the lovely shout-out! And I do hope I didn’t come across as too negative. Usually I try to avoid Serious Discussions. Thought your take on the subject was very interesting and thought-provoking.
Janine,
I’m marinating in a proper response to your comments. But I wanted to at least say thank you very much for your thoughtful and candid response. I love that we can speak openly and run the gamut in opinions. It’s quite brilliant!
p.s. Good conquors evil at the end of Topping from Below. Nuff said. :-0
Phew re TFB!
And I have been kakking myself (sp?)for the last couple of hours, thinking “OMG I shouldn’t have said that… Stupid stupid Janine … “
I hear what you’re saying, Janine, and I respect that point of view.
I think a majority of readers of erotica are in agreement, and that’s why most anthologies and publications have the standards that they do. That’s what the market will bear.
And, quite frankly, much of my writing is about “positive reflections” of erotica, which I enjoy reading as well.
But I think negative or harsh explorations are part of the genre as well. And sometimes the harsh explorations are part of the pleasures to come, a light of revelation after being trapped in a dark tunnel.
Erotica is special because it covers a range of emotions and possibilities, and I appreciate those editors that are willing to explore darker places, whether the story ends bathed in light or not.
It should be clear to the potential reader whether a story or publication delves into these darker spaces, making it possible for the reader to make a discerning choice. Those who like their erotica sweet should not be tricked into reading it when it’s decidedly vinegar, nor should those that like it vinegar think that their concoction is somehow superior.
But I’ll leave that discussion for another day.
I like that: “sweet” and “vinegar” labels! Then the author need not be restricted on what to write, and the reader need not feel she has just been mentally abused.
Janine,
First and foremost, thank you for your honesty here and also for the clarification on the type of beasts you enjoy writing about. Actually, thanks to everyone’s honesty and taking the time to comment on this subject. I do think it’s an important topic, because when someone say’s, “No” to me, or I’m betting any one of us out here, we don’t just say, “Well, okay.” We ask, “Why?”
I think you make an excellent point as to why erotic fiction has put a lid on certain topics. It makes a lot of sense to me. That’s the other nice bonus about discussion out here, not only do you learn about other important writers hot zones, but you gain new intelligence on subjects within our genre. It’s damn important, me thinks (I so got me thinks from Craig and now I can’t stop using it. Thanks, Craig).
My very dear friend who introduced me to the book we’ve tossed around here, Topping From Below feels the same way you do about the forbidden topics too. She just doesn’t find pain - inflicting, or it being inflicted upon her - at all tantalizing. I think for me, the psychology of what makes someone tick, is my motivation. I find I don’t have to scratch to hard and voila! The dark mystery begins to unravel. I don’t like to necessarily celebrate the bad in someone either. It’s a much sunnier picture to read, or watch a film about someone that’s pulled themselves up from the bellows of society and made something wonderful of themselves, rather than the person that tortures animals and then later humans because they’re plagued with darkness.
I’m sure everyone knows that I don’t condone the act of rape, sex with animals, or under-age children either. I think it’s safe to say none of us are into that shit. I do however, find the dark side intriguing and I don’t know why, I just do. I like delving in there, and poking around; learning more about the why’s, but somehow I always find my way back up to the surface.
Anyway, I can’t express enough how much I appreciate everyone’s comments here on this sticky subject. Thank you.
Janine,
We love you. We love you. We love you. Thank you for commenting. No kakking allowed here.
Craig,
I love the vinegar versus sweet erotic label. When you make a gazillion dollars off your idea, please remember us little people, would cha’?
Janine,
I love Craig’s idea too. Now I’m wondering why the hell I like the mental abuse as a reader. “Um, yes, I’ll take a double dose of vinegar, aka, abuse, please. Oh, and I think I’ll splurge and take one to go too.”
I blame it all on my Catholic upbringing, but let’s face it, that’s another post. Let’s see, how much trouble can I get into in one week? Erotic taboos, check. Religion. Check. Let’s see, oh, yes, politics. I’ll save that for next week. Hahaha.
Thank you Neve! - Love you right back.
Have changed pants.
My upbringing was Evangelical Protestant (Fight the Good Fight, etc). Oh boy does it show sometimes!
Janine,
It’s funny how tied we’re to our roots, isn’t? I fought against the Catholic religion with as much passion as my mother, the priests and nuns were cramming it down my throat. I literally detest nearly everything the religion stands for, and have for many, many years. It’s the ultimate in hyprocrisy. I say that, but it’s funny how quickly and reverantly I become when walking into a Catholic church. I genuflect in front of the alter, I reach for holy water and I’m on my knees; asking God for forgiveness and to please help me deal with my torrid, black soul. I’m kidding. Really, I’m kidding.
Thanks for sharing your religious upbringing. Me thinks your personality rings true of every Sag. I’ve met, thus far too.
What an interesting discussion. And no Janine - not stupid stupid. Your comment was very thought-provoking (as is Neve’s post here). It made me think about what I like (and don’t like) about erotica and then to think about my own writing.
One thing I realized is that sometimes I’m looking for one thing in erotica - I call it “basic” or in other words, I don’t have to work too hard to “get it” and it works to arouse me. But I find that most of my favorite stories do not fall in this category. Those tend to be much more complex and yes, dark. And sometimes those stories can be disturbing, not because of the subject matter, but maybe because they come a bit too close for comfort.
And yes, like Janine, I want it to be about pleasure. And that’s where it starts getting fuzzy. Because one person’s pleasure is another person’s no way in hell! And I like the idea of sex positive, but the reality is that in many people’s lives, sex causes a lot of trouble - probably because they weren’t raised to be at all sex-positive. So I’ve been pondering what I want to write - because writing “sweet” stuff isn’t all that interests me - but I’m so new at this that I haven’t explored what that is to any real extent.
And my upbringing was boring Lutheran - and I KNOW that’s not where any of my quirks came from.
Hi Robin,
I think it’s interesting to hear you vascillate between what you like and don’t like about erotica. I’m chuckling, because I go through the same damn thing. I personally like the dark side of erotica, because I think everyone has a dark side. I find my most enjoyable writing experiences are when my characters eclipse the light with the dark; that moment when the two collide and the area is now gray. I call that “the rub”. It’s just my own made-up term, but it seems fitting.
I do enjoy reading some the sweet and delicious erotic literature too though. I’ve read some of the most romantic pieces from our award winning male writers out here, like Craig and Jeremy. Their words are so tender and warm that it makes me all gooey inside. So, I guess this lover of the dark side has a romantic streak in her soul too.
Oooh, and I like how you’ve identified certain subjects as being too close for comfort. It’s tough exposing your naked soul to the world, isn’t? Yeah, we’re all nodding in agreement. I know Donna has touched on that subject in her blog postings, and she and I have been talking about how we’ve both recently come to some minor epiphany of finding our voices. This has been a progression for me after losing a job, finding out a boyfriend was cheating on me, and hence becoming friends with the other woman, while cutting his ass out of my life. So many life changing events that I got tired of being nice to rotten people. Donna’s voice is much prettier than mine, but I think you know what I mean here. I think we come to where we’re at as writers as we come to where we’re at in our lives. And thank God it’s always evolving, yeah?
I sometimes re-read what I write in these posts and I always seem so preachy, but please, knowing how far removed I am from organized religion, that’s not what my intentions are here.
Thank you so much for your wonderful thoughts on this subject. I keep learning and learning. It’s wonderful.
Wow. What an amazing, thoughtful, insightful discussion! I apologize for my absence in commenting until now…your post went up while my mom was here, Neve, and I couldn’t find the time to sit down and catch up on the comments!
I have one story that I wrote that brushes ever so lightly against beastiality. I had a nightmare that was beyond vivid and disturbing, and I immediately wrote it out. Honestly, I think it just might be one of the best things I’ve ever written. It’s a BDSM piece in 1st person from the submissive’s POV.
But. I write, as Craig so eloquently put it, more sweet with some spice, pieces, and that one is not. Mr.G read it and it disturbed him greatly. So the piece is saved away from all eyes and perhaps much farther down the road it will return.
I think there are so many roadblocks before erotica that editors and publishers have to pick their battles. In fact, I’m certain that is the case. But with the advent of self publishing and e-book publishing(like Shanna’s Mindfuck Fiction) I will hazard saying that some of these issues will find light of day, even if it’s only the murky halflight of twilight.
I like all sorts of erotica. Both the dark and the light. I do prefer stuff that stretches the characters and delves into their soft, protected undersides. Kristina Lloyd’s Asking for Trouble and Darker Than Love are fantastic in that way and Remittance Girl writes works that never fail to arouse me then make me squirm at the fact that I AM aroused.
But, I guess, for me, it’s the fact I don’t read to achieve a state of arousal that is key. I read to read. To have my mind aroused, tweaked, tickled, and made to squirm. My body…that I can take care of with my own fantasies that I have crafted and polished to perfection.
Thank you, Neve, for an amazing discussion!
Scarlett,
Thank you for your comments. It’s great to hear that you write your dreams, like so many of us do. I think it’s cathartic and a good way of getting the stuff out, you know? It sure beats therapy too.
And yes, I agree, I think the world is constantly evolving and we do have places like Shanna’s new venture, Mind Fuck Fiction (God, I hope she doesn’t kill me because she’ll get a slew of beastiality-type stories sent) and other less traditional publication forums. Awww…stay tuned, it’s always a great time to be a writer.
I’m so looking forward to meeting you this weekend, Scarlett.